You and I met each other around 2008 when you had the WAS Gallery in Vesterbro even though we have not seen much of each other over the past couple of years. Last year we bumped into each other at Helle Mardahl’s ’vernissage‘ in Boffi and we both remembered that healthy relationships are nurtured by good conversations.

Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to meet me. As adults we often let the serious things in life suck all the joy out of our lives. We need to engage the younger side of ourselves to remember what it means to have fun. It’s important to let yourself be a juvenile every now and then, not everything needs to be so critical all of the time. During this interview, I will go with the flow and it’s totally unscripted 😊.

Can you tell me a little about your background?

It all began with the Wonderland Magazine in 2005 which kickstarted the Wonderland journey. In the first magazine we had a big article with Tal R and Jonathan Meese. We based the concept around dressing them up as Freud and his mum, as they were both in love with Freud. Tal R and Jonathan Meese said they would like to use the costumes, but we had to come over to Berlin. As we were still students travelling to Berlin was expensive but we managed. Subsequently, Tal R and Meese had a huge exhibition at Statens Museum for Kunst called ”Mor”, SMK had already made promotional material which they scrapped in favour of our images for the official press release, advertising and posters. Crown Prince Frederik and the Minister of Culture, Brian Mikkelsen, opened the exhibition. We were buzzing, this was an ideal start for us and the success was a big deal for us students, over the next couple of years we made 11 issues of the magazine, which were distributed in Denmark and Germany.

What are you up to nowadays?

Product design, furniture design and interior design.

What made you choose to design the salt and pepper pots?

It was because I made the concept and interior design of a restaurant on the top floor of Illum. I was hired by Carlsberg to design the Bar Jacobsen restaurant/bar - I did the concept and interior design, and then I bought a lot of chairs from a company called, Please Wait To Be Seated (PWTBS). The owner (Thomas) came to the opening and asked if there was something I would improve. Now, as there is always one thing that you are annoyed about and it was the salt and pepper pots. Thomas said that is was really funny as he, wanted to add a salt and pepper design to the PWTBS collection and then I was hired as the designer. I told him that if he gave me 14 days I would come back with some great ideas and the rest is history.

They are made in wood and are being sold in cool shops like Illums Bolighus and Stilleben, but we think they still need a more commercial retailer as it's a royalty agreement.

How did you get into the art world?

My education is a pretty boring project management degree and I am an autodidactic graphic designer. I slowly moved into the art world when we opened Wonderland Art Space in 2008. Working with the room experience, collaborating with different artists to build and design art bars for festivals. In 2010, I was working on the visual identity for Roskilde Festival, making an art bar for Absolut vodka (Pernod-Ricard) with Helle Mardahl and Andreas Emeniusalso I was making a campaign for Diesel. I was subsequently hired by Roskilde Festival in 2011 to make another art bar, again it was sponsored by Absolut vodka but this time I worked with the artist, Anne Sophie Sandal on the project.

What were you interested in whilst at school?

I grew up in Svogerslev (small town outside Roskilde), I went to high school in Roskilde, but immediately afterwards I moved to Copenhagen as I was so tired of small city life. Even though I really like Roskilde and will probably move back one day...

I was interested in creativity and art whilst I was at school, I wasn’t interested in learning languages or mathematics, I just wanted to play football and learn about creativity. The only thing that I knew was that I had to move to Copenhagen as soon as possible. I attended a 6-month foundation graphics course at Copenhagen Technical School which was extended to one year and I attended film, drawing and graphic courses.

Afterwards, I started a small T-shirt brand called SLRP with Rasmus Blæsbjerg who was one of the first web design teachers at the Design School and was also best friends with Oliver Bjerrehus. I moved to New York for a few months with Rasmus and tried to build up SLRP over there with an American partner, but it did not work out.

Did you read comics or magazines? Who was your hero?

No, I read magazines and I was really inspired by the American W-Magazine that featured fashion, art, film and culture. I remember receiving some money from my aunt and immediately buying a retrospective book featuring W-Magazine issues from 1990. The book was huge and cost DKK 2.500. Then I knew that I really wanted to make a magazine one day.

I have never been a big fan of comics, Rasmus Blæsbjerg was the man I looked up to for many years, he was a character and very funny. The Wood Wood guys were also quite an inspiration, especially in the beginning when they had the shop on Krystalgade.

What was your first big career decision?

In the beginning of the 2000s, I started to learn a lot more about visual art and then I became a fan of a lot of artists because for me art is pure creativity where there are no rules. There are just your own rules, there is no client, you don't have to think of a brand, there is no brief. As an artist you can do what you like. The downside of all of this freedom is also the difficult part! I have been advising a lot of young artists about their career, they should know what they want to do, which direction they want to pursue, for example, sound, video, installations, etc. You cannot do it all, if you want to be an art superstar you have to think about your own brand - Tal R is a good example as you never doubt that it is him when you see one of his paintings. The way he combines the colours and figures, he has a childish way of painting with an edge. Tal R is also really good at speaking about his art, his work has a high level of quality, his motives are appealing - it's painting, it's childish, it's funny. He uses beautiful colours and he's really charming and good at networking. Tal’s also made a lot of right choices, e.g. he’s represented by Contemporary Fine Arts in Berlin and I've met the owner, Bruno many times, he's also a lot of fun. There are so many characters within the art industry 😊

Everyone wants a deeper connection with their clients, how do you create an emotional connection with your customers?

We at Wonderland are a commercial agency but we combine our own projects e.g. salt & pepper, with more commercial projects. We have just reopened the gallery, we are making a podcast about the advertising business. We don't ask permission, we just do it!

It's really important to get your own experiences, for example, trying to make an event because it is really difficult. Getting people to come, creating the marketing and promotion, so if you have that experience then you know how hard it is when you have to do it for a client. Their client’s budgets also have to reflect that if they want to be successful.

It's difficult to get big budget projects, you really have to fight for them and then to have permission to be creative within your own field of expertise and that takes a lot of back and forth, briefs, meetings, etc. Now we are staffing up on the management side, as we know that we have a good reputation and the best creative freelancers want to work with us, where we have struggled in the past to get the big budget jobs.

It appears as though you made a seamless transition from the art world into communication & design. What were the key drivers for you to make the move into the communications world?

The transition has evolved by taking small steps, going more towards a commercial agency and away from the art business. We had a tipping point at the end of 2011, where we had to make the decision whether we wanted to run a creative agency or to run a gallery. At that time the gallery was representing 5 artists and they wanted to be represented at international trade fairs. However, we were not prepared to spend our weekends trying to sell art when we knew that we made all our money from the creative agency. The gallery was more the face; it was definitely not the body.

We started to make small campaigns for Tuborg, we became the Danish advertising agency for Absolut vodka and Diesel, and they both liked the edge that we could bring by gathering the cool creatives. We could not give the artists the representation they deserved, so we decided to close the gallery and move in the city and run our commercial agency there.

In 2103, we landed our biggest job to date for Somersby. We created a sub-brand, ”Somersby Unlimited” specifically targeting young party goers in Denmark. Here we had our commercial breakthrough and a huge budget. We created everything for the concept (strategy, brand name, visual identity, packaging design, etc.).

Carlsberg sold out of Somersby everywhere during the first two years and this is really something phenomenal when a Carlsberg brand sells out, as they really produce a lot of units. There was so much hype created around the product, simply by adding animal print on the bottles - it was a really simple idea, but the timing was perfect. Fashion is really mainstream and it can move a lot of people, we needed a creative basis for the idea for Somersby to become fashionable. The following year we knew it would be floral prints and we knew that if we integrated that on the bottles it would be a hit and again it sold out. The third-year was really difficult to follow up on the iconic bottles, so, unfortunately, Carlsberg closed down the brand.

What role has digital taken in your business model?

Yes, it does! We have two sides of the Agency, I am head of design & art and there is not much digital on that side. The other side is SoMe and digital marketing. Here there is a lot of digital, looking at online trends, Facebook algorithms are constantly changing but as we are doing all the SoMe for Fitness World we have to stay on top of the game. And my business partner, Sophie Hardinger is running that side of the Agency, she has become a SoMe nerd. We have 4 people in her department and hire freelancers if we need to work with Adwords etc.

What makes your brand stand out from the crowd?

I hope that this artistic creative edge we have is the reason why clients want to work with us. Pernod-Ricard recently contacted us again as they want us to integrate their brands in a creative and cool environment.

I realised that when you develop strong ideas and you invest in the creative process, for example, thinking about the materials, the look, etc. delete. then I am really good at taking a brand and taking it into a physical dimension with a lot of funny creative solutions. I prefer to work on interior designs rather than creating advertising campaigns! The work will last a lot longer than just a quick fix, but of course it's difficult to convince companies to invest money into a long-term solution than a quicker, cheaper one. I have managed, so far, to explain and sell to a supertanker like Carlsberg where the Hall of Carlsberg has been up for 5 years and the Carlsberg VIP Lounge at Parken has been there for 7 years